CONTINUATION OF CROSS-EXAMINATION OF PLAINTIFF WITNESS,
REV. BAZYL ZAWIERUCHA,
BY MR. SMORODSKY:
A. Okay. Uh-huh. That the Primate, who is the Prime Hierarch of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, consulting the Exarch of the
Ecumenical
Patriarchate in America will submit the slate of candidates for the office of
Bishop or Metropolitan to the Sobor.
Q. That's
different than what the Constitution says, does it not? Is it not?
P40 A. This is not what the Constitution says.
Q. I understand that. Now, the question is
why, in the testimony that you gave as to the structure, there is no reference
to the
Ecumenical Patriarchate?
A. At the time of the writing of the Constitution, we were -- why there was no reference to it?
Q. Yeah. Why? Why was there no reference,
Father?
A. I assume because at the time the Church was not under the omophorion of the Ecumenical Patriarchate. I do not know.
Q. Father, let's do it this way: You were testifying
and you were taking notes and you have all marked up from the Constitution of
the Sobor of October of 1998, at
which you testified you were the secretary, correct?
A. Yes. Right.
Q. That has been marked P-20. I show you,
Father, document D-57, which is the Points of Agreement. When were they entered
into?
A. I think they were entered into prior to the Sobor of 1998.
Q. Would it be more --
A. Okay.
Q. 19 --
A. December, 1994.
Q. -- December of 1994.
THE COURT: Let me -- if I may interrupt?
What exactly are Points of Agreement? Can you describe what this document is?
THE WITNESS: These are headed here Points
of Agreement between the Ukrainian Orthodox Church in the U.S.A. and the
Ecumenical Patriarchate of
Constantinople.
Q. Now,
that's an agreement that was made between the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the
United States and the Ecumenical
Patriarchate of Constantinople, correct? It's a contract, an
understanding, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. How did that contract affect the
structure of the UOC-USA that you testified to?
A. From the Points of
Agreement, it does – what it does, it underlines what we quoted here in
paragraph two of Article One; that
the Ukrainian
Orthodox Church of America keeps the canons, the dogmas, and structure of the
Ecumenical Orthodox
Church.
Q. Now, Father, again, the sentence right
after that says –
A. After, it says autocephalous.
Q. That's correct.
Q. In all matters of life, correct?
A. -- and government.
Q. And government. Does the Ecumenical
Patriarch of Constantinople recognize the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the
United
States as autocephalous?
Q. As that term is understood in the
ecclesiastical world?
MR. REHILL: If I may, your Honor, the
rest of the Father's answer is as recognized by the Ecumenical Patriarch. But I
was
standing to suggest, Mr. Smorodsky,
if you would allow the witness to finish his answer rather than interrupting in
the middle
of sentences, it would make it
clearer, and I don't think it's really
necessary to yell at Father.
MR. SMORODSKY: I'm sorry.
THE COURT: It's done with enthusiasm
rather than anything else.
MR. SMORODSKY: That is correct.
Q. I apologize, my style, if it offends
you, Father?
A. No, no.
MR. REHILL: It offends me.
MR. SMORODSKY: If it offends you, I apologize.
THE COURT: Well, we have the other
problem. The Court Reporter is obviously – this language is –
MR. SMORODSKY: I recognize it, Judge, and
I will slow down.
THE COURT: It would be helpful for me
taking notes also --
MR. SMORODSKY: Thank you, sir.
THE COURT: -- since many of the terms and
spelling are unfamiliar to me also.
BY MR. SMORODSKY:
Q. The question that I asked, Father, was does the Ecumenical Patriarch recognize the Ukrainian Autocephalous Church of the
United States of America or the
Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the United States of America as autocephalous?
A.
You know, the whole issue -- yes. There is an internal
contradiction within this second paragraph of Article One. There is an
internal contradiction, meaning that if the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the United States of America, as it says here, keeps
the dogmas,
canons, structure, and worship of the Holy Ecumenical Orthodox Church, okay, which
in order to be an
Orthodox Church
it needs to do, then it's autocephalous status would need to be recognized as
autocephalous by the
Patriarchates of
the Orthodox world, yes.
Q. And a
Patriarch doesn't give that, does it?
P46 A.
A Patriarch, the Ecumenical Patriarch certainly could. Yes. Yes, it could. The
question was did he.
Q. Yes.
A. In these Points of Agreement, I don't see the word.
(TO BE CONTINUED)